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Thengel Reinstatement Effort 
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Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
You know I'd hate it to be the case, but if necessary, we can go with the alternate user for now until we can discuss how to set me up with the right access, etc. I don't want to rush that part of it. So use the Admin that exists, or even create another admin account that you only use when necessary for technical reasons.

Make sense?

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Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:45 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
Jim Skach wrote:
You know I'd hate it to be the case, but if necessary, we can go with the alternate user for now until we can discuss how to set me up with the right access, etc. I don't want to rush that part of it. So use the Admin that exists, or even create another admin account that you only use when necessary for technical reasons.

Make sense?

Sounds good for now. I have nothing better.

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Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:50 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
This whole thing has moved a little too fast for me to comment.

Bill, I thought you were overreacting a bit in the diversity thread. You got very vehement about your point. But I never thought you were abusing your authority.

On the other hand, if that's how you feel, there isn't much anybody can say. Sometimes a man's got to do what a man's got to do. I hope it won't result in the destruction of the Haven.

Personally, I can't stand the phrases 'politically correct' and 'thought police'. They come out of partisan politics and are no help to discussion at all.

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Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
droog wrote:
On the other hand, if that's how you feel, there isn't much anybody can say. Sometimes a man's got to do what a man's got to do. I hope it won't result in the destruction of the Haven.

I agree, and I hope so too.
We've let out our reasons. I personally apologize, and can only say: Bill, I want you back as admin. My vote's cast, right here, on this thread. Beyond that, I'm not sure what we can do.


Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:26 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
I didn't read much of the thread behind your resignation Bill (I read the first few posts then decided it wasn't something I was interested in following), but I do want to point out that everyone in a "public" position is always going to have their haters and detractors. Sometimes they may have a valid reason for their views, more often than not they won't. And this is the internet - given the anonymity people tend to be more... descriptive... in their statements than they would be in real life.

Equating a vocal few for the whole community is taking things a bit far. Obviously you've got to do what you think is right, but I trust you and have no problem with you as admin.

Cheers,
Jason

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Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:04 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
jasonga wrote:
I didn't read much of the thread behind your resignation Bill (I read the first few posts then decided it wasn't something I was interested in following), but I do want to point out that everyone in a "public" position is always going to have their haters and detractors. Sometimes they may have a valid reason for their views, more often than not they won't. And this is the internet - given the anonymity people tend to be more... descriptive... in their statements than they would be in real life.

Equating a vocal few for the whole community is taking things a bit far. Obviously you've got to do what you think is right, but I trust you and have no problem with you as admin.

Cheers,
Jason

Jason,
I appreciate that. I must admit that this thread is swaying my views. And I agree, if it was a small vocal minority I would not have considered it at all. To me, it swung to a much more important consideration, with more weight, when we had folks who are the back bone of the site objecting. Some folks have apologized and I cannot tell you how wrong that feels to me. It is not a case of saying you are sorry, but one of whether you meant it or not. If a concern is real, that somehow moderation will take a path to a more draconian style, then never apologize, speak up! We should never abridge the right of members, be them admins, new posters, experienced posters or all manner of variant from speaking their mind and speaking it without fear of reprisal.

On the other hand, if is just a method to gain rhetorical points then it cheapens the site and the discussion. I am cautious to move such claims into this column as all manner of rationalization could be justified by shifting all objections into such a discredited position. I would rather err on the side of addressing a problem (brought up by several different posters in good standing) than to dismiss it out of hand and lose these posters for an apathy to such an issue. I take this dead serious. I hope others do as well.

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Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:15 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
If your points about the apologies are directed at me, even partially, Bill, I want to reiterate my earlier points concerning my own posts:

I was not considering you as "admin" when I talked of thought police, political correctness and extrapolating on your line of thought in the debate. I was considering your personal ideas on their own merits, and arguing the point as if we were all sharing a pint at the Eagle and Child. I didn't think this would get out of hand. But it did.
I should have known that was an underlying issue, but it didn't come to my mind.

That's what I'm apologizing for. And I'm taking this very seriously myself.

I did not take your previous post personally, but just in case you were addressing my own posts here, I thought I had to answer. Cheers.


Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:28 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
Bill, at your request, I will speak up.

I am not going to apologize because I stand by what I've said. I actually think that Bill is doing the right thing. I wholly support the idea of a separate account for admin stuff as everything I've heard about Bill indicates he is very good at separating roles.

I wasn't particularly intimidated by his posts but if I were a newbie looking through the Haven for the first time, I would have been very turned off.

Now, excuse me will I grab my asbestos suit. ;)

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Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:31 pm
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Post Re: Thengel Reinstatement Effort
MountZionRyan wrote:
Bill, at your request, I will speak up.

I am not going to apologize because I stand by what I've said. I actually think that Bill is doing the right thing. I wholly support the idea of a separate account for admin stuff as everything I've heard about Bill indicates he is very good at separating roles.

I wasn't particularly intimidated by his posts but if I were a newbie looking through the Haven for the first time, I would have been very turned off.

Now, excuse me will I grab my asbestos suit. ;)

You should not have to nor should benoist. Not to worry, this is honest discussion and should be engaged. You have concerns and I will stand by your voicing them freely.

I cannot say that the problem is entirely solved by such a separation. A big part, that of perception is addressed, but a second issue arises in the "hiding" my status. Perhaps that is not an issue. Then the belief of abuse is also not addressed. If I just put on a new coat to beat you over the head, it is just a new coat. I will not say no to this measure but I must admit to having reservations based on the appearance if nothing else.

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Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:37 pm
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