View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:16 pm



Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 10
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Post Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
James Raggi has just announced a very ambitious crowdfunding project. I've been reading about it on various blogs that I follow. How is it that the various RPG fora are not all abuzz about the project? Almost 20 different high-profile RPG writers from across the spectrum of the RPG community teamed up with a likewise diverse set of artists to write adventures for Lamentation of the Flame Princess. Is this not cool and exciting?

http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/grand-adventure-campaign


Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:42 pm
Profile E-mail
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:10 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
Raggi doesn't have a brilliant record for actually producing the things people have pledged funding to. His first project was supposed to be up to 14 adventure modules, people ended up with 1, which at around $125 seems a bit pricey. If you failed to do project A, when you announce the more ambitious project B, people are sceptical.

Applies to most kickstarter projects, really. Just go ahead and make your fucking product, if it's any good people will buy it. I realise that's as it's free market capitalism it's a bit old-fashioned and not very popular, but it's the more straightforward and honest way to do things.

  1. make decent product
  2. people give you money for product
That's the way it's supposed to work, not the other way around.

_________________
"Don't let yourself get too worried about all this talk about roleplaying [...] the ultimate object of all this is for everyone to have fun, not to recreate some form of high dramatic art." - Dungeoneer


Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:11 am
Profile E-mail
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 10
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
I didn't know about the prior project you mentioned. I do know that Raggi has successfully crowd-funded a few other projects. This one does seem risky at the higher levels, if the adventure you support reaches its goal but few others do. I can understand a publisher's desire to remove the risk from publishing, though. If there choice is to publish via crowd-sourcing or not publish at all, the former is definitely preferable.

EDIT: I thought I saw somewhere that Raggi was going to hand out coupons that could be spent at the LOTFP store for higher level entries, but I cant find it again.


Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:28 am
Profile E-mail
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:32 am
Posts: 927
Location: Montréal, Québec
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
two_fishes wrote:
I can understand a publisher's desire to remove the risk from publishing, though


The problem is, he's transferring the risk to poor shmucks gambling their money away.

_________________
FFHFKJFFKGJK

My mod voice is red


Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:15 pm
Profile E-mail
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:32 am
Posts: 927
Location: Montréal, Québec
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
Kyle Aaron wrote:
Applies to most kickstarter projects, really. Just go ahead and make your fucking product, if it's any good people will buy it.


That's not my main beef. But he's asking people to fund NINETEEN PRODUCTS at a time. It's crazy, stupid and insulting.

I realize money doesn't grow on trees. I can understand sometimes people might need a little cash.

Raggi is slowly climbing the charts as far as shitty companies ripping off on other people's work and turning a profit. He's pretty much to this decade what Mongoose was to the 2000s. Here's a hint Raggi: finance one fucking module at a time and you won't need to beg for over a hundred grands.

_________________
FFHFKJFFKGJK

My mod voice is red


Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:23 pm
Profile E-mail
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:10 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
two_fishes wrote:
I can understand a publisher's desire to remove the risk from publishing, though.

Yes, it's called cowardice.

Business carries risks, but the same things that make it risky also offer benefits. When I run a small business, I have the risk that I'll have losses, which will all be mine. But I also have the chance that I'll have profits, which also will all be mine. If I have too many losses it's because nobody wanted my stuff, and I go out of business. If I have a lot of profits I can either enjoy them or invest them into my small business to make it bigger, eg employ more people to make more products.

That's the way free market capitalism works. That's why the comparison with Mongoose is wrong-headed - they funded themselves, put out products, and when people said the products were crap, they lost money and went back and improved them. They still don't make great products, overall, however they do put themselves out there and don't expect someone else to pay for their vapourware.

If you need money upfront to get things going in a business, then a sensible businessperson has a couple of ways to go. They can save money for a bit - and if you really believe in the value of your product or service, you'll put your own money into it. They can take out a loan. Or they can ask for investors, and those investors will be promised a share of the profits, if any.

You don't just ask for a handout. And when people are paying over $100 for a single book (hi there, Marc Miller) that hasn't even been written yet, that's a handout.

_________________
"Don't let yourself get too worried about all this talk about roleplaying [...] the ultimate object of all this is for everyone to have fun, not to recreate some form of high dramatic art." - Dungeoneer


Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:54 pm
Profile E-mail
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:34 am
Posts: 10
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
I can't agree with calling it cowardice. Publishers had no choice in the past except to risk higher upfront costs because it was the the only model that functioned. Smart publishers did whatever they could to minimize those risks. The internet has made a new model available that offsets the risks even further. Taking advantage of it is just good business practice.

A crowdfunded project has the same benefits as a traditionally structured project--if people like the product, the funding succeeds. The customers get their product and the developer makes money. If the people don't want the product, the funding fails, those who supported the project (essentially by pre-ordering it) get their money returned and the only loss is the cost of the proposal.

I admit this project is a little different. You could buy one of the big packages, lay out the money for all the adventures and wind up receiving only a few. But the option does exist to put your money for each module individually. In that case you get what you pay for and get your money back for the modules that fail.


Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:21 pm
Profile E-mail
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 1356
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
So, what is everyone's view of venture capitalists? Not in the RPG industry, but in other endeavors I have been the recipient of such investment. Is that a cowardly way to proceed? I brought design, project management and software development to the company. Is that less valuable than money? I would say no. Ideas even more so. Going beyond raggi (I never quite bought the hype) crowd sourcing is a viable model. Now whether rag I is swindling people or even doing it right is beyond my knowledge of his activities.

_________________
Morality, good and evil, comes from man, not gods.


Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:40 pm
Profile E-mail WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:32 am
Posts: 927
Location: Montréal, Québec
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
Unlike Kyle, I think alternative funding can be cool. I can totally see some projects where it might be helpful and a win-win situation. I don't see anything cowardly about it.

It's just this... thing here. Like, I have this great idea for a product or service and would like financing is one thing. But asking for money NINETEEN different ventures right off the bat? Fuck you. That's begging.

And as far as kickstarters are concerned, well part of this proposal is not a risk-free kickstarter.

I just don't see anything cool or exciting about this particular bit of news, sorry.

What is particularly ironic in this case is that Raggi in the past strongly hinted his ripoff game was overpriced for the North American market because that's not who it was destined for initially (I seem to remember this was mostly for the Scandinavian market). But that if people over here were stupid enough to want to go for it, then the game was available. And sure enough, it sold. What's being sold by Raggi are not specific products I think, but rather membership cards for the OSR. It's working well I guess. The OP made it sound like these are high profile designers when really, I recognize a handful of names and the leading funding (by a wide margin) goes to Jeff Rients. Jeff is not known for writing games but rather for blogging about things, especially old school things and the community surrounding these. That's what is going on here.

I'm sure some people are interested in this and that's cool. But I'm not.

_________________
FFHFKJFFKGJK

My mod voice is red


Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:55 am
Profile E-mail
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:10 pm
Posts: 44
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: Lamentation of the Flame Princess Grand Adventure Game
Thengel wrote:
So, what is everyone's view of venture capitalists?

That's fine. People invest money and get to share in the profits if any.

This is not the case with kickstarters. If you want to socialise the losses and privatise the profits, become an investment banker.

Someone should tell Raggi that his dungeon is suck.

_________________
"Don't let yourself get too worried about all this talk about roleplaying [...] the ultimate object of all this is for everyone to have fun, not to recreate some form of high dramatic art." - Dungeoneer


Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:55 am
Profile E-mail
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.