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Commentary on The Gateway City 
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Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:30 pm
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Post Re: Commentary on The Gateway City
Ram wrote:
Given how much space you spend discussing the crime in the city, I recommend you consider more info on some of the city and state agencies that are going to be involved and potential targets for corruption.

Yeah, Paul, this is an interesting point. There's normally a lot of overlapping going on in the US - local, state, and federal - and Shadowrun amps this up by making megacorporations a jurisdiction of their own. Something to emphasize in St Louis might be the overlapping jurisdictions of township, state, and federal law and enforcement.

I'm going to spend more quality time with the map tomorrow.

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Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Commentary on The Gateway City
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Only three neighborhoods are divided by the secession. [A few more (44, 38/39] get trimmed or tweaked, but not significantly.] These would be 35, 36, and 37, or Downtown, Downtown West, and Midtown. Most of what gets cut to the CAS, though, is the strip between 40 and 100, which is primarily commercial/industrial, and thus not of great cultural significance to the neighborhoods themselves. The two obvious ways of dealing with the remainder would be to, a) add the severed portions to their CAS neighbors [20, 28, 29, 31-34], or, b) simply create a new neighborhood. B seems more logical to me, particularly considering the unique nature of the isolated, now-border, region. As much as I'd like to call it "Severance," it would probably be called, "Downtown Border."

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:55 am
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Post Re: Commentary on The Gateway City
Busy at the moment, but I have plans on addressing this later this evening or tomorrow.

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Commentary on The Gateway City
Engine wrote:
Yeah, Paul, this is an interesting point. There's normally a lot of overlapping going on in the US - local, state, and federal - and Shadowrun amps this up by making megacorporations a jurisdiction of their own. Something to emphasize in St Louis might be the overlapping jurisdictions of township, state, and federal law and enforcement.


Absolutely, when I have a chance to actually write the Law Enforcement section this will be one of the major themes: the city may subcontract local law enforcement, but there are still State level agencies, federal agencies and of course private and corporate entities. Plus we can add to this the Military Agencies that work the area as well.

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I'm going to spend more quality time with the map tomorrow.

And so you did! Thanks!

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Only three neighborhoods are divided by the secession. [A few more (44, 38/39] get trimmed or tweaked, but not significantly.] These would be 35, 36, and 37, or Downtown, Downtown West, and Midtown. Most of what gets cut to the CAS, though, is the strip between 40 and 100, which is primarily commercial/industrial, and thus not of great cultural significance to the neighborhoods themselves. The two obvious ways of dealing with the remainder would be to, a) add the severed portions to their CAS neighbors [20, 28, 29, 31-34], or, b) simply create a new neighborhood. B seems more logical to me, particularly considering the unique nature of the isolated, now-border, region. As much as I'd like to call it "Severance," it would probably be called, "Downtown Border."


I actually like Severance-it'd obviously be the unofficial nickname not the official name. Option B seems the most likely, and is helpful in trimming down the 70 some odd individual hoods. I'd kind of like to get them to a manageable number-however I am counterbalancing that with the realism of having neighborhoods we can just look up on Wikipedia.

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:04 pm
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Post Re: Commentary on The Gateway City
SeriousPaul wrote:
Option B seems the most likely, and is helpful in trimming down the 70 some odd individual hoods. I'd kind of like to get them to a manageable number-however I am counterbalancing that with the realism of having neighborhoods we can just look up on Wikipedia.

Ironically, if we were to try to develop the setting officially, or package it for the use of others, I'd say combine several of these smaller neighborhoods into larger ones [with an eye to creating archetypes while maintaining realism: "the warehouse district," "the hills outside of town," et cetera], but as long as it's our house game, that easy Wikipedia is a pretty good convenience. Should be pretty easy to map whatever you decide.

A note on population: we'd talked a little here about the massive population increase, and how that would effect the overall layout of the city [basically, pushing it outward into suburbia, and upward in the urban core]. But it's also important to note there's actually plenty of low-cost room in the city itself. If you look at neighborhoods in the 50s and 60s on the map, you see areas like this and like this and even like this, where enormous swathes of streets, or blocks, or even neighborhoods are simply bereft of housing. Like many large cities, St Louis population peaked in the 50s, with the population steadily seeping into the suburbs as interstates permeated the landscape blah blah blah.

For Shadowrun, this means a ready supply for real estate developers when refugees begin flooding St Louis after the Treaty of Denver. What you have is masses of people, most of them [statistically], middle class, who have just been either kicked out summarily, or given "market value," which isn't. They're good people, used to a standard of living, but now with less to spend and a need for housing in this new city. These empty neighborhoods are perfect: they're open enough to make double and triple lots possible, they have ready access to a variety of city parks, close public transport, excellent transportation infrastructure, everything you need [except schools and government services worth a damn] to start a middle-class community...except money. So these areas will fill up with just-barely-gentrified developments and duplexes and multi-family dwellings and single-family houses and the variety of residential housing you'd expect to see in a healthy lower middle class neighborhood. You could easily swallow a healthy portion of even the triple population figure originally mentioned, with the remainder moving into suburbia, i.e. the portion of the map beyond the white neighborhood map of St Louis proper.

I have some thoughts on expressway borders, and how easy they are in this case, but I don't know how to effectively communicate them. I'll work on that.

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Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Commentary on The Gateway City
I don't know what's made St Louis Place so surrealistically barren, but JeffVanderLou - 59, next door, and not quite as bad but still pretty Flint-like - was originally the city's Negro District, which implies it's probably held an economically disadvantaged position for some time. Its southwest border is Dr Martin Luther King Dr*, which as Chris Rock has pointed out, is seldom a good sign.

Also, I'd just like to point out, nothing in this fucking city runs north-south. What a crazy, crazy, stupid road system. I would go absolutely mad.

*JeffVanderLou also houses the intersection of Dr Martin Luther King Dr and James Cool Papa Bell Ave, which seems like a very nice place.

Still, St Louis Place is just freaky. Must know more.

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From our roof we saw the island. Lights were smashed and all was silent. The pitter patter of snow and ash wheezing in my breathing mask.


Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:38 pm
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